thanks to 'gayle' for bringing our attention to the fact that the december 15th watchtower has now been uploaded to jw.org.
it doesn't take long to reach the first juicy bit on pages 8 and 9, this time regarding higher education:.
it would be good to ask, am i taking to heart solomons example of treasuring divine wisdom?
Metatron:
Look, you lurkers. Being young means being charged up with health, hormones and energy. And yet, they are endlessly told 'no masturbation, no afterschool sports, no college, no dating until you can married, and a long list of other demands.
WOW! Ticking time bombs. Never thought of it that way.
thanks to 'gayle' for bringing our attention to the fact that the december 15th watchtower has now been uploaded to jw.org.
it doesn't take long to reach the first juicy bit on pages 8 and 9, this time regarding higher education:.
it would be good to ask, am i taking to heart solomons example of treasuring divine wisdom?
Governing Body Member: So some of the rank and file are doing some stuff and we think we should talk about it.
Writing Dept. Guy: What kind of stuff?
Governing Body Member: Oh, you know, going to college, getting married to worldly people, playing sports, lying and stuff...
Writing Dept. Guy: Hmmm. That's pretty broad.
Governing Body: Yeah but the end of the year is coming up and we need to cram it in. Oh, and it has to sound like its coming from the Bible.
Writing Dept. Guy: Cool. I'll just put something together about David.
Governing Body Member: We talk about David too much already.
Writing Dept. Guy: Ummmm...Solomon?
Governing Body Member: Whatevs.
oh dear sweet jeebus:.
i enjoy making return visits and helping out on bible studies.
on my better days, i like to witness from house to house.barbara, who has a brain tumor.. i carry only a very light magazine bag.
"Hey! You in the wheelchair! Yeah, you with the leg braces and oxygen mask! Why are you just sittin' there? Who's side are you on? Jehovah's or Satan's? 'Jehovah's' you say? Well then...GET ROLLIN'!!!" - The Governing Body
thanks to 'gayle' for bringing our attention to the fact that the december 15th watchtower has now been uploaded to jw.org.
it doesn't take long to reach the first juicy bit on pages 8 and 9, this time regarding higher education:.
it would be good to ask, am i taking to heart solomons example of treasuring divine wisdom?
"tell untruths when asked to reveal actions that could be embarrassing"
What does that even mean? Is it in reference to being questioned by elders about wrongdoing?
i read this today on the board and want to ask, is the statement true?.
all religious belief distills down to faith in utterly unprovable stories.
i feel this way sometimes.
First off, thanks for all of the responses. I'm seeing people on this thread that I haven't seen before. So, hey there.
Shador, I have read the God Delusion. Dawkins comes on strong but many of his points are sound. Your admission of ideas being taken with a grain of salt shows humility on your part. Unfortunately, that trait is often lacking when believers and non-believers express their viewpoints. We seem to have this tendency to want to be right about the unknowable.
Giordano, Is less religion in the world really good news? Do you think that religion is more a force for bad or a force for good? Do some people NEED religion?
Band on the Run, I agree that these stories were meant to serve some purpose. Teaching morals, lessons, etc. When these stories teach something that is considered to be "true," as in, "treat people the way you want to be treated," many believers point to that as being so universally true that it must be from a Divine source. One kernel of spiritual "truth" can be a little building block for faith. But I'm a skeptic. I need more. I lack faith. So where do I go to find it?
Flipper, Religulous: Good film. I too recommend it.
I need to read some Jung.
tec, Allow me to argue that most people learn of Christ through some sort of religion. Would that be a fair statement? If so, then wouldn't that belief have some semblance of religion, even if the believer moved on from organized religion later. And if not, would you say that your ideas are entirely your own and no religion aided in your understanding of Christ? I ask because I hear others talk of Christ in this way but since I haven't had that experience, I can't relate. Also, could you expound on you reply to Flipper about Jesus giving you answers? How does that work?
Mad Sweeney, "...intelligent custodians of our planet and civilization." Lovely. That is something I can believe in.
Qcmbr, I'm glad you jumped in on this since the topic is based on something you said on a separate thread ;)
Gladiator brings up an interesting point regarding "freelance" believers. I can respect that. I also find that the "freelance" types can better articulate their unique viewpoint compared with the average religious follower. It's a fault of mine but when I hear a response that sounds like manufactured groupspeak regarding a religious - or nonreligious - position, my gag reflex goes into overdrive. It's one of my complaints about JWs.
OTWO, You're right, "religious" is a loaded term. But I think we've done fairly well in this thread not getting too hung up on it. You also said, "IF THERE IS NO WAY TO CONFIRM OR DISPROVE A CLAIM, THERE IS NO REASON TO ATTACH ANY SIGNIFICANCE TO IT." I would agree but only under the condition that every avenue to confirm/disprove has been taken.
How could one of these so-called "unprovable stories" be proven correct? What would it take to convince a non-believer?
For those who haven't weighed in, what do you think about this statement "All religious belief distills down to faith in utterly unprovable stories?"
i read this today on the board and want to ask, is the statement true?.
all religious belief distills down to faith in utterly unprovable stories.
i feel this way sometimes.
I read this today on the board and want to ask, is the statement true?
All religious belief distills down to faith in utterly unprovable stories.
I feel this way sometimes. But then I have to consider that my exodus from religion is relatively new. My bias is too strong for me to be totally objective. I don't think I've yet acheived my balance when it comes to these types of questions.
So I'm asking you, no matter what your persuasion, is the above statement true? And why do you answer so?
this is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.
i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.
as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.
Awen, I have no problem discussing the Bible with a believer who wants to use it to explain their stance. As a former believer, however, I feel that bringing the Bible into the discussion is like bringing a noodle to a knife fight. The Bible can be too easily picked apart when it attempts to prove God. As New Chapter said earlier, for many non-believers, the Bible was the first step toward disbelief.
I consider myself an open-minded agnostic headed toward atheism. But I will always have discussions with open minded believers on the subject of metaphysics because first, I could be wrong - and maybe I missed something along the way - and second, I think both camps have a lot that they can agree on. Instead of our religious beliefs tearing us apart, we should try to come together.
I have had many believers, including JWs, share personal experiences with me of how God has worked with them in their life to acheive positive results. Although I'm not a believer and not superstitious, I can't argue with positive results. In fact, I celebrate positive results. Plus, hearing how much the experience means to the believer hits an emotional chord with me. The stories can be absolutely beautiful, whether I believe them to be of divine origin or not.
An atheist and a believer have a discussion on being good to their neighbors. The atheist finds motivation in an instinctual sense of moral good that is a product of evolution. They also have understanding that at this point in the road of human evolution, it is our duty to be good to one another as it leads to a better existence now and a better chance of the human species surviving into the future. The believer finds motivation in an instinctual sense of moral good that they believe was put there by God. In addition, God says in the holy books to be loving and treat each other well. If one does this, they will be happier and have a better future in the afterlife. Both viewpoints help both people make better choices now, while simultaneously thinking abut the future results of their actions. This is where I feel that the expression "all roads leading to the same place" applies - even allowing for non-believers to travel on the road as well.
this is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.
i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.
as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.
My personal beliefs are far removed from any particular holy book. I see the value of some parts of the Bible, especially the teachings attributed to Jesus - and also the Proverbs, because of the unique take on issues facing humans. I do not, however, attribute my disbelief to the Bible or religion in general. If a God exists, and I am not so sure that it does, it would have to be quite far removed from any religion professing to operate in it's honor. Religion was a step in my disbelief, but no longer plays a large part in my thinking.
A problem arises, though, when a believer wants to talk with me about God. I usually have to go back and speak on scripture as they see it as a prerequisite to a discussion on God. If I refuse to acknowledge the Bible as an authority, most are quick to end the conversation.
Of course, I could always be wrong. We're talking about the currently unprovable here. I'm looking forward to having this same conversation in five years to see where I stand. As for now, I'm just doing my best based on the evidence I can gather and the sense I can make of it.
i have been noticing we ex-jw's are very different in our choices of beliefs once we leave the wts.
some choose christianity, others flee christianity.
some find they can't beieve in anything any more.
Agnostic leaning toward Athiest but willing to consider reasonable arguments.
on the suggestion of the office of public prosecutions, mr steven unthank made application to the magistrate that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 october 2011.. .
on the suggestion of the office of public prosecutions, mr steven unthank made application to the magistrate that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 october 2011.. .
following a request by mr steven unthank, the magistrate ordered that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 october 2011.. .
Satan is attacking Jehovah's people. Satan is making lies look true. Satan is trying to confuse us. Apostates are trying to pull us away from the Organization. We always knew government would turn on our religion.
Pick any one of those above repsonses and that's what will happen if JWs see this in the media. They are conditioned well by their leadership. Negative comments about JWs, whether they are true or not, are to be treated like poison.
